Our Profile
How we met
Martin and Karen met at a dance convention in Palm Springs in 1995. They found common interest in dancing, biology, and building houses. They became dance partners and started competing together, winning championships in California and Washington in various dance styles.
Karen joined Martin in Seattle, Washington in 1998, where they built their dream home together in the greater Seattle area. They met Lisa in 2002, when she moved into the neighborhood with her two sons.
Lisa became a frequent visitor to Martin and Karen's home, playing duets with Martin and learning to dance from Karen. The three started going out together. A year later, Martin and Karen added a wing to their home for Lisa and her sons, and Lisa became Karen's sister-wife. Karen announced the relationship to the community at a general meeting in 2003.
A little more about each of us
Martin (59) has been a dancer, musician, Vietnam vet, lecturer, author, interpreter, and computer programmer. He's lived and worked in Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, Germany, and Sweden. He has a B.A. in Asian Culture (Brown U.) and an M.A. in Dance Anthropology (UCLA). He currently writes for Microsoft.
Karen (62) is a retired AP (advanced placement) bilingual biology teacher. She has one handicapped daughter, Maria, and two sons, Martin and Michael. Karen has been a ballet dancer, house contractor, and jewelry designer. She has an M.S. in biology.
Lisa (47) is a piano teacher, Reiki master, and health educator. She has two sons, James and Josh. In Lisa's words, here is her story...
I actually had thoughts of my first husband having a second wife during my first marriage, but never spoke about it. We were monogamous and had a Christian background, so this was a taboo subject matter. I was very ill during the last 4 years of our marriage and a second wife could have relieved me and tended to the needs of my husband and probably could have saved our marriage instead of it
turning to divorce.
I had no idea that many years later I would be living in polygamy. I wasn't particularly looking for it, it just happened. We just happen to be the right people for each other. Perhaps we owe our success to our personalities and background that just happen to work for all of us.
The thing that I love most about our relationship is the support that we all have for each other. Karen has frequently helped me and Martin out of a few disagreements as have I with the two of them. I like that I can support Karen in the things she loves to do. She likes to work outside in the yard for several hours at a time, and Martin likes to have someone nearby and not feel left by himself. So I can fulfill this need for the both of them, by being with Martin when Karen likes to work outside. Also Karen likes to take trips to see her daughter out of state frequently. I can stay at home with Martin so he doesn't feel left behind. So Karen gets what she needs without feeing guilty, Martin gets what he needs without feeling left behind. And I
get my needs met by feeing that I have an important part of holding things together. I also have a strong need to not be alone too much, so this also fulfills my need in this way by being with Martin.
It is so symbiotic, that we frequently don't have to even discuss these matters. We just know intuitively what each other needs. We also can be honest with each other and all sit down and say what's on our mind if we aren't feeling great about something or feel that we have a need that isn't being met. We probably know more about each other than anyone has ever known about us personally. The realness and honesty are beautiful and really bond us together.
posted by Martin at 6:04 PM
Comments:
Hi folks,
It's interesting that you've found a stable polygamous relationship. We discuss it from time to time but have come to the conclusion that because of the nature of our twin soul relationship, there just isn't any room for a third person. But I commend the three of you making it work (remember I met the three of you at the MS cafeteria and you three seemed pretty serene), out in the open as you are doing. I wish I could see some of your TV appearances, as they would give us greater insight into the day-to-day goings on in your household and community.
We have been approached by members of a spiritual community to join them, but we are a little reticent to give up even a modicum of independence. Maybe you could give us a kind of schedule and council meeting overviews of your own intential community to help us make up our minds.
Incidentally, you can find our Indigo Orbit blog at http://orbital.planetary.net/ to see what we've been up to with our own twin soul relationship.
Good tidings to you three!
Kris and Rachel
It's nice to read your happy polygamous life. I would like to know more about it. I want u three to be my friends. I'm yogesh kumar, i'm bachelor till now because of some family reasons. I love Lisa's personal sharings very much and her dream came true for being a second wife. I like her point of view very much. Please share with me much more. I'm Yogesh 34, India.
I read your nice and happy polygamous life. I want to be your friends. I also very much like Lisa's feelings and her story. Can I be your (you three) friend? I'm Yogesh 34, India.
hi im trying to contact polygamy groups or communitys or peoples or like wise thinkings. My emails Aquarian_dragons_heart@yahoo.com
Thanks for your time! :)
Jesus said in Mark 10:11 "And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. "
Jesus very clearly says that every man who puts away his wife commits adultery when he marries another woman (any woman, not only a married woman).
If according to Jesus a man commits adultery if he is divorced or separated from his first wife and he marries another woman, how much more!!! he commits adultery when he takes another woman to be his wife while he is still married!!!
In Tit 1:6 and 1 tim 3:2 apostle Paul says that a bishop should be a husband of one wife.
"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; "
This statement is very important since bishops were the teachers who were to shape the mentality and way of thinking of the church, of Jesus' sheep.
This commmandment was given to the bishops because they were to model and shape the believers into who they are. We all multiply who we are and they were clearly told to be the husbands of one wfe in order to multiply this approach in other marriages, in the mentality of the whole church.
A very important information is that we, believers from gentiles were never given the Old testament Law. The OT Law was given only to the Jews.
We are not under the Law. So even in the polygamy was prevalent in the times of the OT it cannot be any basis for the church to stand on and look to.
When Jesus came He changed the Law. He taught the Jews in Mat 5:21 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:"
and in the verse 22 Jesus clearly says: "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. "
Jesus introduced a new law (the law of love), a new covenant.
In the Old Testament people, both Adam and Eve were under the curse. Eve's curse was that she was to be ruled by her husband.
But in Gal 3:13 we read: "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:"
The woman's curse was broken. It is over. The husband no longer rules over the wife. They are both equal, there is no male no female because we both are one in Christ.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. " Gal 3:28
We ALL are Christ's members. We all are His sons as written in Gal 3:26 "For ye are all the sons of God by faith in Christ Jesus. "
Polgamy is contrary to the law of law under we are under now.
In Eph 5:2 we read: "And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. "
The husband doesn not walk in love when he takes another wife because he doesnt think at that moment about the first wife who is not blessed and not happy and glad to see her husband be with aother woman. And the husband's role is to give his life for the wife Eph 5:26-28.
If the husband is getting out of love towards his wife and makes decisions that are hurting to her he can read the Lord's opinion about it in 1 Pe 3:7: "Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered"
The woman is not being given any honor when she sees her husband "fall in love" with another woman.
Look what Jesus said in Mat 5:21
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
and in the next verse He says:
"But I say unto you"
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Didnt Jesus change the Law Himself? why did He do it? Because He paid the price for our sins and we were no longer to be subject to the old rules and regulations because Jesus fulfiled the law for us! In Jesus we are free from the law:
Rom 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
Lok what Heb 8:6 says
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
and the next verse says:
For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
so the first covenant had been not been faultless because we are now in the second covenant.
look at heb 7:18
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
NOW LOOK AT HEB 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Jesus said that He and the Father are one so when Jesus said "But I say unto you" changing the law He was then in unty with the Father.
Jesus started a total new era for His people, He distroyed sin which stood against people and now we all (born again) are His sons, His friends which as not possible under the OT Law because then only chosen people were prophets, kings and priests and now all of born again believers are His children. Everything has changed.
2 cor 5:17 says
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Polgamy is contrary to the law of law under we are under now.
In Eph 5:2 we read: "And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. "
The husband doesn not walk in love when he takes another wife because he doesnt think at that moment about the first wife who is not blessed and not happy and glad to see her husband be with aother woman. And the husband's role is to give his life for the wife Eph 5:26-28.
If the husband is getting out of love towards his wife and makes decisions that are hurting to her he can read the Lord's opinion about it in 1 Pe 3:7: "Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered"
The woman is not being given any honor when she sees her husband "fall in love" with another woman.
Look what Jesus said in Mat 5:21
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
and in the next verse He says:
"But I say unto you"
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Didnt Jesus change the Law Himself? why did He do it? Because He paid the price for our sins and we were no longer to be subject to the old rules and regulations because Jesus fulfiled the law for us! In Jesus we are free from the law:
Rom 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
Lok what Heb 8:6 says
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
and the next verse says:
For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
so the first covenant had been not been faultless because we are now in the second covenant.
look at heb 7:18
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
NOW LOOK AT HEB 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Jesus said that He and the Father are one so when Jesus said "But I say unto you" changing the law He was then in unty with the Father.
Jesus started a total new era for His people, He distroyed sin which stood against people and now we all (born again) are His sons, His friends which as not possible under the OT Law because then only chosen people were prophets, kings and priests and now all of born again believers are His children. Everything has changed.
2 cor 5:17 says
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Polgamy is contrary to the law of law under we are under now.
In Eph 5:2 we read: "And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. "
The husband doesn not walk in love when he takes another wife because he doesnt think at that moment about the first wife who is not blessed and not happy and glad to see her husband be with aother woman. And the husband's role is to give his life for the wife Eph 5:26-28.
If the husband is getting out of love towards his wife and makes decisions that are hurting to her he can read the Lord's opinion about it in 1 Pe 3:7: "Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered"
The woman is not being given any honor when she sees her husband "fall in love" with another woman.
Look what Jesus said in Mat 5:21
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
and in the next verse He says:
"But I say unto you"
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Didnt Jesus change the Law Himself? why did He do it? Because He paid the price for our sins and we were no longer to be subject to the old rules and regulations because Jesus fulfiled the law for us! In Jesus we are free from the law:
Rom 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
Lok what Heb 8:6 says
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
and the next verse says:
For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
so the first covenant had been not been faultless because we are now in the second covenant.
look at heb 7:18
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
NOW LOOK AT HEB 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Jesus said that He and the Father are one so when Jesus said "But I say unto you" changing the law He was then in unty with the Father.
Jesus started a total new era for His people, He distroyed sin which stood against people and now we all (born again) are His sons, His friends which as not possible under the OT Law because then only chosen people were prophets, kings and priests and now all of born again believers are His children. Everything has changed.
2 cor 5:17 says
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Polgamy is contrary to the law of law under we are under now.
In Eph 5:2 we read: "And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. "
The husband doesn not walk in love when he takes another wife because he doesnt think at that moment about the first wife who is not blessed and not happy and glad to see her husband be with aother woman. And the husband's role is to give his life for the wife Eph 5:26-28.
If the husband is getting out of love towards his wife and makes decisions that are hurting to her he can read the Lord's opinion about it in 1 Pe 3:7: "Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered"
The woman is not being given any honor when she sees her husband "fall in love" with another woman.
Look what Jesus said in Mat 5:21
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
and in the next verse He says:
"But I say unto you"
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Didnt Jesus change the Law Himself? why did He do it? Because He paid the price for our sins and we were no longer to be subject to the old rules and regulations because Jesus fulfiled the law for us! In Jesus we are free from the law:
Rom 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
Lok what Heb 8:6 says
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
and the next verse says:
For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
so the first covenant had been not been faultless because we are now in the second covenant.
continuation of the below thought:
look at heb 7:18
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
NOW LOOK AT HEB 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Jesus said that He and the Father are one so when Jesus said "But I say unto you" changing the law He was then in unty with the Father.
Jesus started a total new era for His people, He distroyed sin which stood against people and now we all (born again) are His sons, His friends which as not possible under the OT Law because then only chosen people were prophets, kings and priests and now all of born again believers are His children. Everything has changed.
2 cor 5:17 says
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
the OT law was given to the Jews, descendants of abraham after the flesh, but believers are his descendants according to the promise.
look at rom 9:7
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
and now the next verse is so important
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
we are Christians and we have to follow our Christ, who is our Lord and Savior, let Him rule and guide yur life as He wants, not as you want.
The law was changed whether you want it or not. we are in the new and better covenant - the new covenant. Jesus fulfilled the law. And He introduced a new way for us. The teaching of Jesus is in the NEW TESTAMENT. Not the Old one.
Look, is slavery good? Is slavery fair and just? No. Was it God's choice? Did God want slavery for people? Did He like it? No.
Was it prevalent in the times of the OT? Yes. Did God tolerate it? YES.
He even gave regulations concerning slavery. Both in the OT and in the NT. Masters of the slaves were not put to death for killing a slave. When the slave's owners hurt a slave's eye their own eye was not plucked out or damaged for it but they were to let the slaves go free. In the NT slaves were to obey their masters as the Lord Jesus.
Slavery was not God's will and yet God tolerated it for hundreds and hundreds of years.
The same was with polygamy.
Polygamy was not fair, it was not just just toward women but God tolerated it for a few reasons. Women were dependent on men's provision and protection and when men were killed by the thousands women were forced to enter polygamous marriages in order to survive. The reason for bad treatment of women was men's heardedned heart. It was the reason why they divorced their wives (Mark 10:5) and what stood behind it was their sinful nature. But the sinful nature was changed in Jesus. We were given a new nature, we became new and were not any more subject to the lusts but we are to follow the Spirit.
That is why God allowed polygamy for a period of time but it ended when Jesus came. Jesus changed everything.
Another reason for polygamy was the curse. The Bible says that Eve was deceived. Adam was not deceived by the snake. (1Ti 2:14 says "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."). When Eve took the fruit from the tree being deceived by the snake, she gave it to her husband and he ate it.
Adam was not deceived. He knew what he was doing but he chose to follow Eve and be condemned and pusnished with her because he loved her. He chose Eve over God, He disobeyed God for Eve. That is why Eve became cursed and was to be ruled by her husband.
the OT law was given to the Jews, descendants of abraham after the flesh, but believers are his descendants according to the promise.
look at rom 9:7
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
and now the next verse is so important
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
we are Christians and we have to follow our Christ, who is our Lord and Savior, let Him rule and guide yur life as He wants, not as you want.
The law was changed whether you want it or not. we are in the new and better covenant - the new covenant. Jesus fulfilled the law. And He introduced a new way for us. The teaching of Jesus is in the NEW TESTAMENT. Not the Old one.
Look, is slavery good? Is slavery fair and just? No. Was it God's choice? Did God want slavery for people? Did He like it? No.
Was it prevalent in the times of the OT? Yes. Did God tolerate it? YES.
He even gave regulations concerning slavery. Both in the OT and in the NT. Masters of the slaves were not put to death for killing a slave. When the slave's owners hurt a slave's eye their own eye was not plucked out or damaged for it but they were to let the slaves go free. In the NT slaves were to obey their masters as the Lord Jesus.
Slavery was not God's will and yet God tolerated it for hundreds and hundreds of years.
The same was with polygamy.
Polygamy was not fair, it was not just just toward women but God tolerated it for a few reasons. Women were dependent on men's provision and protection and when men were killed by the thousands women were forced to enter polygamous marriages in order to survive. The reason for bad treatment of women was men's heardedned heart. It was the reason why they divorced their wives (Mark 10:5) and what stood behind it was their sinful nature. But the sinful nature was changed in Jesus. We were given a new nature, we became new and were not any more subject to the lusts but we are to follow the Spirit.
God allowed polygamy for a period of time but it ended when Jesus came. Jesus changed everything.
Another reason for polygamy was the curse. The Bible says that Eve was deceived. Adam was not deceived by the snake. (1Ti 2:14 says "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."). When Eve took the fruit from the tree being deceived by the snake, she gave it to her husband and he ate it.
Adam was not deceived. He knew what he was doing but he chose to follow Eve and be condemned and pusnished with her because he loved her. He chose Eve over God, He disobeyed God for Eve. That is why Eve became cursed and was to be ruled by her husband.
But the curse was broken in Jesus.
In Jesus Adam and Eve, husbands and wives, men and women, slaves and free people are one, are all sons of God, they all are to submit one to another, thay all are to choose and prefer one above another, they all are to treat others the way they would like to be treated. So if the husband would not want his wife to get herself another husband he shouldn't do this to his wife either. So don't think that she would be honored and respected when she sees another woman by your side.
Don't yield to all spirits. They often come as an angel of light (2 Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.). Satan wants to deceive people so that they would fulfil his will, he wants to influence their life because he wants to kill, steal and destroy people's life.
The spirit who came and gave you the revelation on polygamy was the same spirit who came to Jospeh Smith in the form of an angel and gave him the golden glasses to read the Book of Mormon in order to start a new false religion, it was the same spirit who convinced Mohhamed to start islam. It is the same spirit who leads people into collective suicides, to follow their demon possessed leaders like Hitler or Stalin, the same spirit that tells them to kill an old lady for money, or rob a bank etc. It is a spirit of deception.
Another proof that polygamy is wrong and against the will of God:
You told me that in the OT a man committed adultery only when he had sex with a married woman. If he had sex with a prostitute he was not punished for it.
But in the NT we read in 1 Cor 6:13-18 that you cannot join to a prostitute.
Were prostitutes married women? No. They would have been stoned to death by committing adultery with another man being a married woman. So prostitutes were not married. And yet Paul says that you cannot join yourself to a prostitute and he condemned it and called it... adultery!!
In gospel of John we read about an adulterous woman (chapter 8) and she was brought to Jesus and according to the OT law Jesus was supposed to stone her to death. If He wouldn't have stoned her to death He would have to be stoned to death by His disobedience to the law. But what happened? Jesus showed that woman mercy. He changed the law, He changed the approach to people, because He came to take her sins and to pay for her. Because everything changed and the OT law was changed and replaced by the NT law of love.
Methinks Anonymous should go hither findeth thee a freakin' life!
Wow... I'm sorry... I'm a Christian and this anonymous person is quite annoying. I'm pretty sure you have to be a follower of Christ before you are expected to follow his commands.
While I may disagree with your lifestyle, you may also disagree with mine. One thing is for certain, you are happy. And as long as that exists, I'm happy for you, too.
Wow... I'm sorry... I'm a Christian and this anonymous person is quite annoying. I'm pretty sure you have to be a follower of Christ before you are expected to follow his commands.
While I may disagree with your lifestyle, you may also disagree with mine. One thing is for certain, you are happy. And as long as that exists, I'm happy for you, too.
I think Martin is very selfish and childish by wanting everything his way. Don't want to be left alone. What about the wife? She likes to work in the yard and visit her daughter. Get over yourself Martin, your not all that.